Lorain Morning Journal editors come unglued

7:25am Friday, June 11, 2004

One day after it published a very fair and balanced story on the issue of businesses asking CHL-holders to stay away, the biased Lorain Morning Journal editors went on a tear, apparently to try and make up for their losses.

On the June 10 editorial page, the paper accused Ohioans For Concealed Carry of "bullying" businesses, and published two letters to the editor from gun ban extremists.

It is clear that the news (see below) that signs are coming down, even in their hometown, was just too much for them.

June 10, 2004
Lorain Morning Journal

Fligner's pulls its gun ban

LORAIN -- A day after learning it was on a ''do not patronize'' list compiled by a group that supports carrying concealed weapons, Fligner's Supermarket removed a sign from its store prohibiting patrons licensed to carry concealed firearms from doing so there.

However, store owner Ben Fligner said he didn't remove the sign because he feared being on the list would cause his store to lose business from supporters of carrying concealed weapons.

''We were looking into it before,'' Fligner said, but noted he made his final decision after a phone discussion with Jim Irvine, a spokesman for Ohioans for Concealed Carry.

OFCC is compiling a list of Ohio businesses that ban concealed carry and is posting the list on its Web site at www.ofcc.net.

OFCC also sells ''do not patronize'' business cards on its Web site, which concealed carry license holders can hand out to the businesses that ban them.

Fligner said he agrees with OFCC's argument that businesses that ban concealed weapons make themselves targets for armed criminals because the criminals know there will be no one armed to confront them.

''They tend to think it's fair game,'' said Fligner.

The OFCC Web site noted yesterday in a posting that Fligner's was removed from the ''do not patronize'' list.

''After a short, informative conversation, Mr. Fligner ... removed his signs. It is once again safe to shop at Fligner's,'' the posting said.

Fligner said previously that he feared customers carrying weapons could result in gunfire in the store if they got into a spat over, for example, a place in line.

Chris Zeitler, who owns and operates Jamie's Carpet in South Amherst, which is on the OFCC list, said he has a sign posted banning concealed weapons in his store and said he has no plans to remove it.

Zeitler said he has no qualms with people carrying concealed weapons but doesn't feel they should be allowed to do so in places of business.

''It sends a confusing message to employees. They see a guy with a concealed gun, they might see it bulging, and they don't know what that person is going to use that gun for,'' said Zeitler.

Zeitler said he has already lost the business of one concealed carry advocate. He said the individual one day showed up in his office and told Zeitler that he had planned on purchasing carpet at Jamie's but changed his mind after seeing the sign that banned concealed carry.

''He told me, 'You just lost my business.' I said, 'Good, now get out of my store if you have a gun,''' Zeitler said.

During a phone interview yesterday, Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, called the OFCC a ''fringe group.''

In an e-mail to The Morning Journal, she had said concealed gun carriers are ''promoting the false danger that to have your business weapon-free invites criminal activity.''

''The reality is criminals have no way of knowing what kind of security an employer has on the premises just because he has a public prohibition of weapons,'' she said.

More than 25 area businesses and municipalities are listed on OFCC's ''do not patronize'' list.

In total, the Web site lists 650 Ohio businesses, banks and taxpayer-funded entities, such as city parks and fairgrounds, on its list.

Irvine said the do not patronize list is not a boycott. Instead, he said, it is provided as a service for concealed carriers.

Ohio made it legal to carry concealed handguns early this year, but individuals must first apply for a license before they can carry the weapons. License holders, however, are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon in certain restricted areas, such as schools, public buildings, bars and churches.

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Click on the "Read More..." link below to read the Lorain Morning Journal's letters the the editor page, which includes the Hoover letter.

Following is the sour-grapes Lorain Morning Journal Editorial page from June 10:

Editorial: Businesses shouldn't be intimidated by the concealed gun bullying

Businesses that have posted ''no guns allowed'' signs, now are being bullied by organized supporters of concealed carry who, unfortunately, are getting some of those signs taken down.

Of course, they don't call it bullying.

Jim Irvine, a spokesman for Ohioans for Concealed Carry, told our reporter the group's list of about 650 ''no guns'' businesses on its political action committee Web site isn't a boycott list: ''It's to let people know they can't go in certain places, so they won't get cited for trespassing.'' But the same Web site also encourages people to lobby ''no guns'' businesses with a small card the group sells. The message on that card graphically equates ''no guns'' with ''no money'' and says, ''You lost my business today and in the future.'' It also says, ''For your convenience you will be added to our 'Do Not Patronize' database.'' That can have an ominous sound for some business owners.

The Morning Journal is on the group's ''Do Not Patronize'' blacklist. Our ''no guns allowed'' signs will remain on the door.

It's ironic that those who fought so hard for the right to carry concealed guns now are trying to deny business owners their right to prohibit guns in their establishments if they so choose.

The anti-concealed carry Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, in a letter to the editor elsewhere on this page, makes a great dollars-and-cents point for business owners who face pro-gun bullying. That point is: ''... it is estimated that there may be 100,000 Ohioans that will get their permit to carry in the next few years (probably a high estimate if other states' histories are an indicator) and there are over 7 million adult Ohioans that will not be carrying hidden guns. Those 7 million will determine the success of business in Ohio.''

A ''no guns allowed'' stance is good common sense and good business sense.

Letters:

Business ban on handguns makes business sense

To the Editor: The Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence congratulates The Morning Journal on remaining weapon-free after the passage of the Ohio Concealed Carry law.

In your article of June 9, "Concealed carry supporters deal business resistance," many of the gun promoters' threats are unfounded.

Many, if not most, businesses have an employee policy prohibiting weapons. Telling outsiders they are also prohibited from carrying on your property is legal, sensible, good policy and a consistent weapon-free policy for your workplace.

Concealed gun carriers are promoting the false danger that to have your business weapon-free invites criminal activity. The reality is criminals have no way of knowing what kind of security an employer has on the premises just because he has a public prohibition of weapons.

Concealed gun carriers also have also told businesses they will not patronize them if they cannot bring their guns. Sounds like a boycott to most of us.

Boycott or not, businesses should not worry, as it is estimated that there may be 100,000 Ohioans that will get their permit to carry in the next few years (probably a high estimate if other states' histories are an indicator) and there are over 7 million adult Ohioans that will not be carrying hidden guns.

Those 7 million will determine the success of business in Ohio.

Toby Hoover, executive director, Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, Toledo

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Concealed guns bad

To the Editor: What were the legislators in Ohio thinking when they passed this ridiculous law allowing people to carry concealed weapons? They had no time to work on a remedy for solving the education problems in Ohio but this law they had time to work on. Now these people that choose to carry concealed weapons feel they can intimidate those who don't want them in their places of business. I hope more business will declare they don't want these people in their establishments because those are the establishments that will certainly get my business.

Who cares if their name gets on a meaningless list? All we can hope for is an innocent child does not become a victim of a gunshot killing because these people were careless with the toys they want to carry around and pretend they are back in the days of the wild, Wild West.

I am so disgusted with the legislators and the governor for letting this nonsense pass and making Ohio the laughingstock of the nation. All sane people should remember this when voting time comes around again.

Ann Lehman, Amherst

FLASH: Ohio Attorney General files Motion to Dismiss Hoover's anti-CCW lawsuit

Letters to Toby...

Letter to the Editor: CCW lament focused on the wrong people

Another day, another advocation of law-breaking by gun ban extremists

Caught: Gun Ban Lobby Attempts Rhetorical Revisionism

Translating Toby: Senate testimony full of holes

OFCC PAC Education Guide: 'Raging Against Self-Defense'

CNN Poll Shows Growing Opposition to Extension of Clinton Gun Ban

ZOGBY 2004: Voters favor concealed carry laws by a margin of 79% to 18%