UDF hears from customers, issues canned response, then letter from Security Dir.

Judging by the letters we’ve been copied on, Ohio-based United Dairy Farmers recent posting of “no-guns” signs in one of the heaviest CHL-licensed areas of the state is not going over well. And why should it? The company has been doing business with CHL-holders in Indiana and Kentucky for decades without incident, and only made the decision to post signs in the wake of passage of OhioCCW. What do they have against the citizens of their home state?

From: XXXXXX Co. Deputy [name redacted]
To: UDF
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005

United Dairy Farmers Customer Service:

It is with puzzlement that I read United Dairy Farmers has decided to post signs prohibiting concealed weapons on company property. I have been a UDF customer for many years and an active law enforcement officer in the State of Ohio for the past 13 years. I have been carrying a concealed firearm in your store for the past 13 years with no problem. In fact, whenever I am there I am actually a plainclothes police officer protecting your store as I go about my shopping. Not only do the signs discriminate against law-abiding license holders, but they also prohibit off-duty police officers from entering
the store with a firearm.

What puzzles me is the logic behind this decision. Does anyone at UDF actually think that these signs are
going to stop a robber, rapist or drug dealer from entering the store with a gun? I cannot believe that anyone at UDF corporate headquarters could possibly be foolish enough to think that a sign will stop criminal activity--if that works you should consider posting "No Robbery!" or "No Murder!" signs!! The only conclusion I can make is that UDF is attempting to become politically active and express their anti-gun views. I must say that I will *NOT* spend another cent with your company as long as these signs are posted at any of the stores. If the signs come down I will be happy to go back to business as usual.

I completely respect your right to post your stores with whatever sign you choose. I hope that you can also understand that I will not give business to any company that thinks I am a detriment to their safety. This is insulting. Fortunately for me the UDF store in my town is the only convenience store that has an anti-gun policy so it'll be easy not to spend money with your company. I'll be happy to go back to business as usual as soon as UDF decides to take the signs down.

I wish you well, but not in this business of treating law-abiding customers as if they are a menace to society.

Deputy [Name Redacted]
XXXXXX Co. Sheriffs Office

UDF’s canned response, which is being sent to everyone that contacts the Ohio-based business about its discriminatory and dangerous policy, was as follows:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: CCW
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005
From: [email protected]

Thank you for taking the time to contact our office.

We appreciate you taking your time to share your feelings with us on our
regarding the ban of concealed weapons at our stores. We want to assure
you your comments have not gone unnoticed. We have passed your statement
on to our Security Department, Human Resources Department and the Vice
President of our Retail Operations Department for their review.

If we can be of further assistance, feel free to contact our office.

Thank you,
Jennifer Marsick
Consumer Relations Representative
United Dairy Farmers
(800) 833-9911
(800) 833-1177

UDF’s canned response doesn’t do justice to letters liked this deputy’s, or the others, examples of which can be viewed by clicking on the “Read More” link below.

Each of the well-written, informed letters below received the same canned response from UDF.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary M.
To: UDF
Sent: Fri Apr 01 2005
Subject: I will no longer patronize any of your UDF stores

To UDF:

My family and I will no longer patronize any of your UDF stores in Ohio, Kentucky or Indiana where you have or will post your "no guns" signs. It is clear to me from the article posted about this on the Ohioans for Concealed Carry (of which I am a member) that while your intentions may have been good, they are based on ignorance. They also completely ignore the real world experiences in all three of those states.

I'm a former police officer from Ft. Wayne, IN. I also had an Indiana CHL permit for over 10 years. I've had my Ohio permit for about a year. The fears that your Director of Security, John Osborn raised have no basis in reality whatsoever. The experiences with CHL permit holders in other states demonstrate conclusively that we are not the people you need to be concerned about. The ones you need to be concerned about are the criminals who are going to ignore those signs, and attack your now defenseless
customers in your parking lots and in your stores. Kroger made the same ignorant decision to put those signs up. After several defenseless people had been attacked in their parking lots, and after an uproar by consumers, they finally got smart and took them down.

Many of the UDF stores I've frequented are located in neighborhoods where the security risks are higher. When you disarm law-abiding citizens from coming into your stores, you also disarm them in your parking lots. The parking lot is where they're much more likely to have problems. When you put those signs up, are you also going to put armed police officers in all your parking lots to make up for what you're taking away from your customer's ability to defend themselves? I'll bet not. I'll bet you
haven't given any thought at all to the increased risk you're creating for those customers. If you care that little about the security of my family and me, then I certainly don't need to be giving you any of my money.

I will also continue to lobby hard to have the ability for companies like yours to lose that right to post those signs. I for one am fed up with companies like yours who treat me like a criminal or an ignorant fool who can't handle a firearm safely. I am fed up with them taking away my ability to defend myself while knowing full well that I'll be left defenseless against criminals they KNOW are going to ignore those signs.

I'd also like to respond to Mr. Osborn's comment about off-duty police officers being a deterrent. I recall hearing several years ago when I lived in Indiana, that citizens with CHL permits outnumbered police officers (at that time) in that state by a margin of 5-1. That means that in Indiana, criminals are 5 times more likely to encounter an armed civilian who can thwart their criminal attempts than they are a police
officer. Because our Ohio law is only one year old, and because of a lot of foot dragging on the part of sheriff's, our ratio in Ohio probably isn't that high yet. But eventually it may very well be. Take some time to look at the facts and you'll see that states that have CHL experience significant drops in crimes against citizens (except for criminal protection zones like your stores now are). This brief article provides more info on this fact:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149250,00.html

I will check back every few months or so to see if you've come to your senses and taken those signs down. But until then, I'll shop at other stores where they care a lot more about my security and safety than you
guys seem to.

Gary M.

----- Original Message -----
From: Timothy Inwood
To: UDF
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005

To whom it may concern at UDF

Last night I took my children to the park. Afterwards I had promised them ice cream at UDF, which is a weekly ritual for us. Upon arrival as I was stepping through the door I suddenly realized you were posted "No Handguns". I quickly stopped, had my children come back outside. I told them that you did not want our business and were endangering us by posting that stupid sign. We then ran up to Kroger where I bought ice cream and took it home to serve them.

By posting your business you are inviting mayhem. You are telling criminals "We have disarmed our patrons come on it and rob us all.....we can't stop you. Do what you will". Bank robberies are up 30% in Ohio according the FBI, but it seems like that is only at posted bank chains like Fifth Third banks. I can assure you it is not the law-abiding citizen who jumped through all the hoops and hurdles took the training classes and passed the background checks to have our right to self defense restored to us who are robbing those banks.

As long as you have those signs up, my business will go to Dairy Queen when they open for the season or I
will just continue to stock ice cream from Kroger. As I also bought my gasoline at the Wall St. location UDF in Wilmington, that will cease now too. Sorry you have taken this very stupid move and hope you will reverse it ASAP.

Sincerely,

Timothy Inwood

----- Original Message -----
From: [Name Withheld]
To: UDF
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005

Dear Sir,

I was dismayed to read that your company will attempt to ban legal CCW holders from your premises while allowing illegally armed and dangerous criminals whom disregard the laws of this land to continue to shop and rob there.

Will you offer a guarantee of personal protection to us while shopping on your premises?

If not, then I'd say that your company is negligent because these places are well known as stop and robs,
and you have a legal duty to protect the safety of your customers.

Sincerely,

A concerned well trained, and legally armed CCW holding customer.

----- Original Message -----
From J.M.
To: [email protected]
Date: 04/01/05
Subject: CCW

Hello,

I have 9 kids, and we routinely buy 6 gals of milk at UDF twice a week. The notice of no concealed weapons for lawful citizens makes no sense! Does UDF really believe it will keep criminals out? I think it will increase the risk of armed robbery, as it is advertising for the criminals to come to a place they know everyone will be defenseless. So I will now shop at Kroger when making a milk only run, until UDF changes it's policy of discrimination against lawful citizens.

Sincerely,

J.M., MD

----- Original Message -----
To: Rob Linder
From: E.S.
Date: 04/01/05

Yesterday I bought gas at your store, started to walk in and saw a sign saying no weapons. Well, since I was carrying one, as I am a licensed by the state of Ohio to carry a gun this was a big problem. I had to walk back to my motorcycle. Take off my gun, put it in the saddle bag, and then go in and pay. Not real secure, but what the hell else could I do?

I never would have stopped to buy gas at UDF if I had known you were posted no CCW! You should post your gas pump if you are going to post the building. What if someone saw me take off my gun and stolen it while I was in the store paying for my gas? You would have been responsible for my gun getting in the hands of a criminal. This is an insipid policy you have adopted. The moron who came up with it should be fired immediately. I told the manager that too. He said I should tell it to Mr. Linder, so I am.

You, sir, are endangering your customers. That’s right - you are putting people in DANGER. You think a criminal is going to be deterred by that sign? Hell, you might as well invite them in as you are telling them your employees and your customers can't protect themselves from them. Weakness encourages aggression by predators. I am not doing business with UDF again until the damned signs come down.

E. S.
Wilmington

Mon Apr 04 2005
To: UDF
From: Rick S.
Subject: UDF

Dear Mr. Lindner...

I have shopped in your stores for many years here in Indiana and I am sorry
to see that you are kissing me off as a customer. I will not, and cannot, do
business with a company that does not want my business (and goes out of
their way to make my life more dangerous.)

My wife and I have our CCW licenses and have carried into your stores
literally thousands of times, and now you say you can't trust us?

There is NO evidence to back that up in the experience of 35 states over
decades of time... and that's why I think you screwed the pooch on this one.

Rick and Joan S.

------------------------

Although he has no answers for Rick & Joan, UDF's Director of Security has now issued his response to these excellent letters...

To whom it may concern

We are sorry if UDF lost your business! The Shareholders and Senior
Management felt the SAFEST policy for Customer and Employees would be to
post our stores for No Concealed Carry. Personally, as a 34 year police
veteran, I agree with the decision!

Sincerely,

JOHN W. OSBORNE
Director of Security
(513)366-8497